Expensive Hate: Being the heel in a rap battle
For my inaugural blog, I’m going to share my opinion on the Loe Pesci vs Syco battle that happened in KOTD’s Grand Prix. As a disclaimer, I did not see this battle live. Also, I know more about Pesci’s side of the story, just because I talk to him more often. But both him and Syco are good dudes.
Earlier today, you may have seen this video:
I admit that I’m not that familiar with professional wrestling; I stopped watching it when I was 13. But as I understand it, the term “heel” is used to described the bad guy wrestler. The one who is specifically set up to be booed in the storyline. The one who fans root against.
In his own words, Pesci made himself into the heel.
I know him well enough to say he is not actually the asshole wrapped in a douche bag that he seems like here. He will tell you how he feels without pulling punches, but I respect that. What a lot of viewers don’t realize is that he was putting on an act. He wanted you to hate him.
Why, I don’t know. Probably to get more hype and more views for the battle, or to piss Syco off to the point where he got flustered, or to prove that he’s good enough to get the victory even when every single person in the building wants him to fall down the stairs and die.
And guess what? It worked.
The Lead-Up
Another thing the casual Internet viewer might not know is what took place before the battle. In the days leading up to the event, Pesci was posting jabs at Syco on his Facebook wall. For example:
“SYCO, STEP YOUR LIFE GAME UP. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IZ. ITS THE NAME OF THE LEAGUE I HERD YOU GOT MONEY STASHED AWAY IN YOUR PANDA BEAR COOKIE JAR.”
And so on. The night before the battle, he posted this videoblog. From what I hear, most people at the venue had either read the comments or seen the video or both, and they were not thrilled about it. The crowd was already on Syco’s side before anyone spat a bar.
Then Pesci did that interview, and that 57 minute intro, and pulled out an umbrella. Obviously these were deliberate actions to cast himself as the heel, and Syco as the underdog hero for the crowd to cheer on.
The Syco-logical Effect
(See what I did there?)
For me, the most interesting thing about this battle is watching how Pesci’s tactics affected the crowd. Look at the faces in the front row. You can literally see their expressions change, from smiling and ready to laugh when it’s Syco’s turn, to mean-mugging Pesh through his entire round. When they give Loe a reaction, it’s grudgingly.
Even when Syco choked in the OT, they literally cheered him on. I have never seen a crowd do that in my life. Watch any other video where a rapper chokes. I guarantee the crowd is not forgiving or sympathetic.
I’m not trying to bash Syco. I like him as a battler, and I think he had a hell of a showing. But I also think that a lot of the reaction he got was due to the hero vs. villain storyline that Pesci created.
Just as an example, look at these lines on paper, without the crowd for context. Conceptually, they are similar. Which one do you think is better?
“First he tries to be Italian, trying to be Joe Pesci
Then he tries to be Canadian, yelling Go Gretzky!
But his dad at the convenience store is yelling, Loe Pesci
Go get me an Oh Henry and a cold Pepsi”
vs.
“And if you spit on me dude, I will kick the living shit out of you
Your parents just like you, they spit in my food and they have the worst delivery too”
To me, it’s pretty clear.
My Thoughts
There are a lot of people saying that in this battle, Loe Pesci was rude, disrespectful, and essentially shat all over ever precept of human decency. To which I say: exactly.
This was his strategy. To be the heel. And personally, I was entertained by every minute of it. I wish more battlers would try to pull off crazy shit like this.
I know, I’m one of the original pioneers of the nice-guy-who-battles-but-is-really-humble-and-polite-and-nice. That persona works for me. But I don’t want or expect everyone to be that way. There’s a reason that there are both good guy and bad guy wrestlers. I like battling because it’s rude, obnoxious, disgusting, and depraved. Why should we all be menstruating vaginas outside of our 3 rounds?
Anyway, this was fun. I plan to write more blogs. Some will be on battling, some will be on random topics that you don’t care about. Please read them anyway.
Shout outs to Pesci and Syco for a great battle. I do think Syco did really well, and he proved that he makes an excellent underdog. If you work on playing that card man, it can be just as — or way more — effective than being the heel.
Take it from me.
February 16th, 2010 at 7:33 pm
Hellz ya Loe Pesci is fuckin INTENSE. The whole Umbrella gag was INGENIUS, I saw Syco spraying like a MOFO man I’d want a Umbrella too.
February 16th, 2010 at 10:15 pm
so this is the cover up story??
wtf is this? sounds like the american cover up for 911…
Syco gets my respect, Loe pesci is a disgrace.
February 17th, 2010 at 9:23 am
@Oobe
It’s not a cover up story, just my opinion. I’m not an official mouthpiece for KOTD. I’m just a crazy person with access to a computer.
Thanks for reading!
February 17th, 2010 at 10:02 am
twist this was actually a good read…I def thought loe was being disrespectful but I can see your side and it actually makes this battle more interesting…what loe did really generated views and controversy and brought a whole new angle to this battle…
Good shit man…ill def check back often
February 17th, 2010 at 10:05 am
@Blackanese
Thanks for the comment, I’m glad you enjoyed it.
February 17th, 2010 at 10:54 am
Good article!
I really did notice the facial expressions of the crowd change during the verses. Look specifically at mindbender (he judged a few battles ) he goes from stone cold when loe is spitting to obnoxiously loud and laughing when syco spits.
You should write about some of the judging inconsistency in kotd.
also when are u gonna return to the battle scene?
February 17th, 2010 at 12:11 pm
@sjeeezy
In general, Mindbender always has the best facial expressions. Half the time they’re more entertaining than the battle. He’s our version of Ex-I.
As for a return, maybe sometime in the spring or summer. I’ve been offered some interesting 2-on-2 battles.
February 18th, 2010 at 5:40 am
Twist not bad article. You might be just too nice a fellow to say the shit the way it really is. You hang up your ego at a battle. Loes Disrespectful! Smells like pussy to me. What you guys want to hear, Care Bear Rap. I wasnt at the battle. Im a triple OG who doesnt rap. Been on this earth and listened to this from when it was a baby,(Im old)and when I hear oobe the noob saying some poom poom shit like Im reading in this blog switch to EmoMusic or Emo rap.That the same reason why Syco lost, no self control and loes is by me just a better rapper. Im a be fully honest and tell you that Toronto is a fuckin cold hearted place. For people to even start noticing that crowd reaction shit and the fact that they are actually hating not based on skills shows all the eyes watching whats really happening. Thats some fake shit. Loes took that in an easy three. No questions. Overtime nothing. Syco had shit for OT. You could speculate all you want,Syco didnt even think it would have went to OT. Dumbass people hype up the guy to makin him think that he had a chance. His chances was as good as his overtime.
P.S I know you didnt ask for it but in my opinion the 2 o2 battles suck.
February 18th, 2010 at 8:49 am
@Whosta
Thanks for reading. I liked your comment a lot. I think I should get T-shirts made that say “Care Bear Rap” on them.
February 18th, 2010 at 5:36 pm
heyyy Twist
I like your article, I still think that the umbrella thing was pretty stupid and unfair, cuz if you’re doing your verse and people are opening stuff in your face it can screw you over
Now yeah, its good if that happens through intimidation, but the umbrella was uncalled for, unless he used it in his verse once and kept it open the whole time instead of constantly opening it in Syco’s face
either way, i think Pesci’s a good contender in KOTD and Syco’s alright, i like your article
I think you should try to come back for that thing in march or may when hollohan faces saurus haha, you’re my favourite KOTD rapper
February 19th, 2010 at 8:24 am
@Blade
Good comment. It made me wonder what I would have done in Syco’s position. I like to think I could have stopped my prepared verse and freestyled a line about the umbrella. But in the heat of the moment, who knows.
And I will definitely be back in KOTD, just not sure when.
February 19th, 2010 at 2:48 pm
This is an interesting point of view, not only for what it means for the specific battle, but also what it means for this specific TYPE of battling.
If this was a different type of league, if these two battlers were different people, Syco would have been justified in — or even expected to — start swinging on Loe. That stuff doesn’t happen in GT or KOTD, and that’s mostly because neither the battlers nor the fans of this specific format want that. I’m not saying that it happens on Smack, or URL, but at the same time, no one would ever do something like pull out an umbrella.
GT and KOTD are more theatrical, comedy-based leagues. They serve different audiences. Your wrestling comparisons here are almost frighteningly accurate. Some certain corners of GT and KOTD are more akin to wrestling than to something like boxing, which is more technical. There are a lot of battlers in GT and KOTD who really are not rappers in the classical sense (there are a lot who ARE really skilled emcees… but also those who aren’t). This is a forum for this sort of entertainment, and it makes a lot of sense for people like Loe to do what they did.
This is NOT a league that’s one on lyrical skill, flow, or any of those other technical dynamics. It’s about wowing an audience. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, it’s just different, and I think your observations indicate that these little tactics could become more popular in the near future.
February 19th, 2010 at 3:38 pm
@Finn
Wow. That comment was incredibly insightful. I think your point is dead on, but it never even occured to me (probably because I’m so entrenched in the KOTD/GT arena that I didn’t consider rap battling in the larger sense).
If I give you my password, will you just write my blogs from now on?
February 19th, 2010 at 4:00 pm
Haha. Well, I’m hoping to encourage YOU to write more. You’re obviously a smart guy and a geek for words, so I’m hoping that you create a forum for yourself outside of the typical material that everyone knows you for (as entertaining as that stuff is). This is a good start.
February 19th, 2010 at 4:01 pm
I can see being a heel in wrestling, but in battling it seems like it might work against the person using it, since the battles are judged. In wrestling, you pin a guy 1 2 3 it’s over, no matter who likes you. But in MC battles, you gotta get votes from judges. I could see it blowing up in Loe’s face.
Also, what I have noticed in GT is that records don’t really matter. The same may not be the same for KOTD since there is a “champ” and usually money on the line, but basically GT is billing themselves as a way to get exposure. Win or lose, if you sell some records it all works out. Although it may be different for KOTD, Loe is possibly alienating potential fans. If his only focus is the battle circuit, fine, but if he wants to move units he’s gonna need an audience.
You are right that not everyone should be a cookie cutter cut-out of each other though. A bit of flair and style can really add something to a battle. But I see it like sports: you can trash talk all day, but you better win to back it up! And I always have loved the players who let their game do the talking. I love to see a B Ball player talk trash and then just get dunked on by the quiet guy; the guy who speaks with his game. That is what I think Loe should do: focus less on trickery and props, and more on being just nasty disrespectful with the lyrics. At the end of the day it’s still a rap battle. He can achieve the same “heel” status through what he says, not what he does when it’s not his turn.
February 20th, 2010 at 10:11 am
@Finn
Thanks for the encouragement. That is indeed my goal.
@TradeMark
You have some good points there. It made me think about the role of judges.
The idea of having judges in a rap battle (at least ideally) is that it SHOULD be like pinning a guy in wrestling. It doesn’t matter who the crowd likes. The judges are there to be as impartial as possible and choose whoever was the better battler.
But in reality, the judges are also part of the crowd. They are standing in the same physical space. Speaking as someone who has judged, it’s very tricky not to get caught up in the reactions of everyone around you.
I don’t think it’s a problem that can be solved. Just a reality of this weird hobby we have.
February 20th, 2010 at 10:57 am
The one thing I think your article ignores is intent.
While I do agree that there needs to be more room for a spectrum of personalities, and I think more people should experiment with this, I think it’s unfair to assume that Loe’s persona was completely intentional.
Judging by his pre, and post battle demeanor, and conversations I had with him, I think he’s falling into an excuse that was offered to him rather than being candid about his intentions… I genuinely believe he feels the way he says he did, and that he honestly respects Syco as much as he put forth in the video.
When the crowd started getting salty it was easier for him to say ‘haha.. just kidding. Geez you guys are so emo’ than it was for him to defend a heavily criticized position.
To me theres a big difference between MAKING YOURSELF THE HEEL… and BEING A HEEL… and then playing along with it when the audience picks up on it. Now everyone’s acting like he’s some kind of luminary when the fact is he’s just an asshole in a new and interesting way… and too insecure to follow through with it.
February 20th, 2010 at 11:10 am
Actually, this is an interesting question — has there been a battler before who has actively tried to set himself up as the (league’s) #1 villain? Most organized battling in the past has been done in tournament form, with money on the line. If your angle is exposure, though, you could potentially have something going with just having your name on everyone’s tongue because you’re the dude that everyone hates — not because you’re wack, but because you’re the villain. The guy that everyone WANTS to rap with, because they WANT to beat you. Even if you’re a target… they still wanna rap with you, at the end of the day. That’s a good thing.
I can’t really think of a single rapper that’s done this. Again, maybe it’s because of the formats of the past, and everyone wanting to win a tourney and make money. But if GT and KOTD stick around as exposure vehicles, and not just battle-for-cash situations, there’s an opportunity to develop a public persona. All press is good press. Maybe Loe’s onto some shit.
February 20th, 2010 at 11:39 am
I get a little worried about including props and things like umbrellas in battles. Well, I dunno about worried, I’m sure I’ll live however this particular issue turns out. But I have my reasons. I don’t think its good.
The way I’ve seen props used before is to serve as or to enhance a punchline (like in surgeon general vs sonny bamboo (i think) or dna vs rone). Thats where I can understand it. its an enhancer and not necessarily an obstruction to your opponent. Even still I could easily understand that the boost in theatricality you get from using something like that is a little cheap. There’s a whole argument there but thats not my point and I’m not really sure where I stand on it to be honest. I’m all about being entertained.
But the use of the umbrella, in this instance, marks a pretty big progression in the role of the prop, because it actually became an obstacle for syco for a good chunk of time, which is dumb, and I personally don’t really wanna see things escalate to the point where rappers are showing up with a fucken carrot top case of goodies to wing at their opponent (hyperbole)
My point is that I really don’t think that a prop should be a central component to a battle, nor do I think it should be a device to just fuck with someone during their round. I mean, you’re not supposed to talk – I see the umbrella thing as very similar.
Plus, he achieved the ‘heel’ status without it (blog, intro). Not necessary
Yup, thats all. Longwinded rap-battle chat.
February 20th, 2010 at 12:07 pm
Man, this post is really leading to some good discussion. I dig it.
@nope
I get what you’re saying. I can’t speak for Loe, but I will go so far as to say he probably actually does not think that Syco is very good at rapping. So I understand why you would say, hey, maybe he’s just an asshole.
But look at everything he did and how much thought went into it: the blog, the intro, the umbrella, etc. etc. Whether he’s an asshole in real life or not, this was obviously a calculated act.
@Finn
That IS an interesting question. Clearly the KOTD/GT format opens up a whole range of possibilities that battlers are just starting to figure out as they adapt to it.
@Christ
I know what you mean. If everyone starts bringing props, it would turn into a gigantic clusterfuck. But I do think Loe did it well and the specific joke he was making was hilarious. It worked one time for one rapper. It won’t be effective all the time. (Maybe not ever again. As a rule, props are kind of lame.)
February 21st, 2010 at 4:22 pm
LMAO @ (look what i did there?) haha that had me rollin. . .
yo i think you make a really good point. . ya know in america like everyone hates dizaster, and he is in my top3 favorite not just for bars but for personality. . i like this angle, it gives a new energy that was lost in spontaneous battles. . and just like wrestling it fuels views because if i hate someone i might watch them to see them lose ya know?
good blog
February 22nd, 2010 at 8:08 am
@Heebs
I agree that Dizaster is a guy who plays the heel role very well. I almost used him as an example here, but the interesting thing about his rise in GT is that he also had the underdog effect working for him, since he faced The Saurus and Illmac so early. So it wasn’t quite the same situation.
February 23rd, 2010 at 3:11 am
This was a nice read, Loe pesci pulls off that asshole persona which seemed to work in every-way. I was hopin to see some Kid Twist in the grand prix, get back on the field soon. EZ
February 23rd, 2010 at 8:10 am
@Adam
Thanks for the comment. I thought about joining the Grand Prix but I just couldn’t make the time commitment. I will be back in KOTD soon though.
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:43 pm
I really enjoyed reading your take on the battle. It was insightful. Battlers taking on a persona and the term ‘heel’ were both new to me. Plus your writing style is enjoyable to read. I look forward to your future blogs. Chow
February 23rd, 2010 at 9:59 pm
P.S I’ve thought about the similarities between KOT and wrestling before (not to steal your lime light). Primarily, I was thinking about how GT and KOT could profit from ‘borrowing’ (polite for steal) the wrestling format. specifically, creating beef between particular battlers, creating story lines etc.. I think it is gradually occurring (whether consciously or not). The prime example being the battlers interviews at the beginning of the KOT Grand Prix.
February 24th, 2010 at 10:34 am
@afishlikeme
I’m glad you enjoyed the read. What’s really interesting to me is not only the ways that GT/KOTD and wrestling are similar, but also the ways that they are not.
The whole videoblog, fake beef thing is clearly borrowed from wrestling. But even though a lot of that is an act, the competition and the stakes are quite real. There are no predetermined victors. At the end of the day, all antics aside, both rappers really do want to win. In that sense, it’s more along the lines of say MMA than professional wrestling.
February 24th, 2010 at 11:01 am
great article Mr Twist. the parallels between wrestling and rap battling are pretty clear…im actually surprised more rappers dont take on that type of heel role..last time ive seen it in kotd was back when mischief and prodical son had their lil beef…but that shit was entertaining as fuck haha
February 24th, 2010 at 11:33 am
@Elaquent
Thanks man. The reason we don’t see more heels in battling, I imagine, is because most viewers assume that who you are in a battle is who you are in real life. This is not true in wrestling (or at least, not AS true, obviously some viewers still do). So I think it’s harder for battlers to make that separation between themselves and the persona.
February 25th, 2010 at 2:38 am
On a creepy side note anyone notice the Macbeth like story happening kydd teknik chokes in a battle and if you mention his name you choke It’s a curse I say a curse!!
February 25th, 2010 at 9:43 am
@xrader
There’s a couple curses like that in battling. Another one is mentioning Dizaster’s choke. Everyone who has done that has choked afterward.
I’m actually thinking of doing a blog where I review all of the battles where people mention my name. They almost always seem to lose. That might be a curse too!
March 8th, 2010 at 5:26 pm
I have an interesting perspective on the issue of judges as members of the audience, since I come from a background of competitive debate.
The debate circuit has benefited from two things:
1) Judging is taken very seriously, being chosen to judge a high quality round at the tournament is considered to be an honor and is competed for. Moreover, judging a debate and debating are considered to be seperate skills. Maintaining objectivity clearly requires a different skillset then speaking persuasively.
2) There exist sufficient people in the audience and in the community as a whole to determine whether the judgement has been unduly swayed by outside factors. People who are easily influenced by factors not core to the debate are seen as illegitimate and don`t end up judging other good rounds.
I don’t see any real reason why the same to factors couldn’t come into play in battling as well.
March 9th, 2010 at 12:19 pm
@smn
That’s an interesting point. Obviously a judging system like that would be of great benefit to the battle scene. But it will never happen, because we are a bunch of degenerate scumbags who like to drink beer, smoke weed, make dick jokes, and degrade women. So you can see how setting up rigorous standards for judging might prove difficult.
Thanks for the comment man.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:23 pm
About the comparison you made between Syco’s and Pesci’s lines, to be fair, you can’t hear the indian accent Syco brought along with that line to make it hit harder. I agree with you that Pesci’s line was way better lyrical-wise, but Syco’s was funnier.
May 7th, 2010 at 8:05 am
Good read.
I think you hit the nail by highlighting the racial thing… Seriously, reading the comments, how can a battle fan worry about whether an emcee is being disrespectful or not? The whole point of the battle is to dis-the-fuck out of your opponent and shine on without flinching. No apologies. The only modicum of true disrespect I can imagine in a battle scenario is interrupting your opponent, touching him or ACTUALLY fighting.
I’m old school, before these accapella written battles. They were way less formal but there was that underlying respect during the battle with that Vegas “what goes on here stays here” notion. Any villainous thing Loes did before the battle is still within the bounds of these organized battle leagues. Syco can take that shit, he’s not a little kid. Honestly, both emcees are monsters, I think anyone who wants to come to Syco’s defense is disrespecting him outside of the game.
Keep writin’ Twist. Good shit.
November 15th, 2010 at 2:55 am
Hey good read
I’m from Australia love watching battles and love the brutality with words. Just wanted to ask on an unrelated topic to this blog but other than Justice from Australia do any of you guys follow the Aussie scene at all??? Just because I think we are kind of on the same level as you Canadians at the moment. Hip Hop had grown huge here and there are alot of great free stylers and battlers here but we don’t have any shows like KOTD and or GT or anything for that matter I was thinking of maybe trying to start something here in Australia so that we may be able to get the rep we deserve aswell. What I guess I’m trying to say is do you have any tips for anyone who may be thinking of starting up something like KOTD???
November 16th, 2010 at 9:34 am
@Shaneo
Actually, there is a league in Australia called Got Beef, run by Decoy and Keynote (from the Aussie division of the WRC). I don’t think they’ve had an event for a while though. If you’re down to help out the scene – which is awesome – I would suggest maybe your best bet is to try contacting either of those guys. Strength in numbers and all that.
And I haven’t checked for any Aussie hip-hop in a while but I was a big fan of the Hard Road album by the Hilltop Hoods, which Okwerdz introduced me to. Anything else you would reccommend?